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- Reading responses must be AT LEAST 200 words.
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- Reading responses are due by midnight on the night PRIOR to our discussion of the required reading.
Reading both "What is the Objective Correlative?" and "Understanding Objective Correlative", I found some very interesting ways to tell a story not only through using the five senses, but simply through an 'emotional algebra'. This definition the article gives us is well said and helped a lot to understand exactly what an objective correlation is. Emotional Algebra is all the factors [of life events] put together in order to evoke emotion. They can even be opposite of each other just like the example given to us.
ReplyDeleteIn Jon G's article of "Understanding the Objective Correlative", made reference to a few famous books that have done a good job showing what an OC is. An objective correlative can even be inanimate or even a character whose going through a lot. Jon states "the idea is to turn an object, event, or character into a translating mechanism that poses a greater question that's not directly on the page". To me, this really stood out. In other words let the reader make the final impression/ end result of the whole scenario that the writer intended it to be. Also, a lot of repetition to emphasize what the symbol or important theme is in the story is crucial. Really there's only three things to remember by when telling a story: dialogue, scene, and action.
"Woman Hollering Creek" by Cisneros I think is very relatable to Women who struggle with finding freedom who feel as if they are tied down by a male figure in order to find true happiness. I think one of the symbols in this short story are the telenovelas and the other, Cleofila's neighbors, Dolores and Soledad as a reminder. First of all, Cleofilas seems to have this obsession over the telenovela "Tu o Nadie" because she inspires to be like the main character or perhaps feels like the character in it, Lucia Mendez since she is a character who continuously loves and gives, which is what Cleofilas seems to be like as she is a mother, wife, and daughter. I also get a sense that the narrator is a friend of hers who intends to go to the wedding since they talk to us directly and asks questions on page 54. Another thing mentioned early in the story is Cleofilas and her husband, Juan Pedrito's love. "How when a man and woman love each other, sometimes that love sours" (53) and we are able to see that as the story progresses and see how she is beaten and not loved by Juan. The telenovela is her only outlet as she is stuck in this 'marriage' with Juan. Cleofila's goal in the story is to find love; but not so much in the romantic way, but rather self love and freedom as a woman. The other symbol that poses as reminder to her, are Soledad and Dolores whose husband's "either left through choice or circumstance and would never come back" (55). For me, I felt that the author's purpose was to remind Cleofilas, that the longer she stays in this shitty relationship, she'll end up like the senoras. Something I quite enjoyed reading about was Juan Pedrito. Pages 56 and 57 bombard us readers through this paragraph with brief descriptions as to who this man is and how he acts. Overall the ending ended well and was something positive I think women who feel suffocated, can take from and that there is hope.
-Illiana Luna
I remember very little of “Woman Hollering Creek” in one of my past classes. It’s been awhile, but I know there are points to look at. I remember the class mentioned about the names of the two ladies that live close by to Cleofilas, Soledad and Dolores, Solitude and Pain. They each had their problems with their marriage, Soledad having a husband disappear with a trace and Dolores losing her two sons and husband. It would be weird and questionable to live near neighbors with names such of those in the story. And now looking deeply into the location where the protagonist lives, near an oddly named creek. Based on the environment and the creek lingering idly near, there’s a since of despair, frustration, and passiveness through the story. Would saying that the creek itself is the object correlative, mustering up the sense of hopelessness to Cleofilas? Or just the neighbors embellishing the creek indirectly?
ReplyDeleteI haven’t carefully read the story before until now, especially after reading about the objective correlative. It seems easy to make a simple chain of objects to make up an emotion. Or just reading by the letter here that it seems easy. But then I consider the story I’m still working on now. I have a little bit of key objects that will be used in the story, but haven’t thought of the correct way to provide a certain emotion. I wonder if my previous pieces even have these objective correlatives.
Hector Dimas
From its description, the objective correlative is a series of objects and events that support a set of ideas and thoughts that should resonate within the readers. The objective correlative is actually a process that almost all writers use without actually knowing it. This is prevalent in the general fact that adding details and descriptions follows this correlative. However, Jon Gingerich states that while we should be adding these amounts of details and thus helping the reader understand what we want them to know, we shouldn’t give it to them easily and openly. We should describe these moments of the objective correlative, but not openly tells its meaning. Overall, the objective correlative is a premise that has a lot of promise and makes the perfect amount of sense. We should list these moments in our story so that we may better understand where we want are reader to be taken. If we want to express an amount of sadness, ti would be best to describe imagery that is connected to the idea of sadness without openly explaining that a level of grief is present. We should let the main characters interact with these images, and the reader should understand on their own.
ReplyDeleteThis theme of using objective correlative is present in Sandra Cisneros’ “Woman Hollering Creek”. We have this moment in the first paragraph in which Cleofilas, the wife of Juan Pedro, is lamenting about her relationship. Cisneros uses various keywords and phrases to give us the idea that her relationship is unsatisfying or flawed without telling us directly. In one paragraph, Cisneros writes that Juan Pedro does not come home, in which Cleofilas listens to the interstate, a distant dog parking, and the rustling of the pecan trees. By giving the readers this series of events, we can understand this feeling of acceptance that Cleofilas feels, in which she might recognize that her husband and herself aren’t in real love. This sounds of the interstate, the dog barking, and the pecan trees rustling further add this sense of loneliness and Cisneros explains that the sounds lure Cleofilas to sleep. This usage of objective correlative to explain Cleofilas emotions make it easier to understand her character and the premise of the short story.
David Leal
The articles on Objective Correlative made me understand that one can have an idea for a scene in a story or a chain of events that drives the story but you don’t need to state it but use details to convey it. Like the example we read where we watch a hypothetical film about a women at a cemetery and her life after. How we all feel sad at the beginning while reading it and then the ray of sunshine that shines through fills us with a feeling of hope and positivity. Then while reading Sandra Cisneros “Women Hollering Creek” I found myself feeling an array of emotions through out it all. The way she talks about love in telenovelas and how she always dreamed of having a lover like the ones in novels yet she realizes that real life isn’t always like that. Though I have to say that for a moment I thought she would end up kill herself with her child in the creek . Women Hollering Creek reminded me of the Llorona and then La Llorona is mentioned and when it was I was like oh snap! This only fueled my suspicions, of course, the ending wasn’t like that and I was pleased with how it ended. I’m glad she decides to leave. I’ve heard stories of women who just wait it out, wait for them to change and in the process end up dead. I like how this story was realistic and full of emotions. I felt sad, mad, scared and happy all at once. Out of all the readings we’ve read so far this is my favorite!
ReplyDeleteAlejandra Rodriguez
The articles “What is the Objective Correlative?” and “Understanding the Objective Correlative” explain the concept of showing the reader the idea through imagery and symbolism, rather than telling them point-blank. This is something that I’ve been told a lot about creative writing, be sure to show and convey but don’t tell the reader directly- they are smarter than that would give them credit for. This, however, was a bit of a different way of introducing the subject- it looked at it like more of an equation. Several different objects and images can be combined in a story to evoke a very specific feeling from the reader. It’s like plugging in numbers until they add up to the answer you want, with the right combination you’ve told the reader what they should be feeling without ever mentioning the words specifically. It’s a pretty genius way of looking at the method.
ReplyDeleteAs far as how this connects back to “Woman Hollering Creek” I can point to one specific example that I thought accomplished the objective correlative fairly well. There’s a point in the story where Cleofilas thinks about the things she finds slightly off-kilter in her house. A hair, cups upside down on shelves, her toiletries rearranged. Cisneros does nothing but describe these slight changes, combined with a few words like “doubt” and “her imagination” just enough for the reader to grasp the idea of which Cleofilas doesn’t dare mention even in her own inner monologue. Infidelity- another woman in her house, touching her things. It’s well-done, and I as a reader was able to catch the drift, the intention, within the first two sentences of the section.
Lauryn Flores
The emphasis placed on La Gritona throughout Cisneros’s “Woman Hollering Creek” connects with the articles on objective correlation, which go on to detail what a collection of objects and descriptions can evoke when juxtaposed to convey a feeling left unsaid for the reader to experience rather than read, word for word; “our emotional reaciton seems to originate not in one word or image or phrase, but in the combination of all those things together, like a sort of emotional algebra.” Cleofilas herself is sandwiched between two symbolic women, Soledad and Dolores; Soledad, a “widow” with an ambiguous story she never really tells, and Dolores, burning an eternal pyre for the three dead men in her life. Loneliness and Pain. Almost like options Cleofilas is given to choose from- leave him and be lonely; stay and endure the pain. As for La Gritona itself, which “no one could say wheher the woman had hollered from anger or pain”, goes from being “such a lovely arroyo” in the beginning to “a thing with a voice all its own...La Llorona who drowned her children” until ultimately becoming a bridge unto a new era for Cleofilas, one not ruled by men and free from the confines of gender roles and expectations.
ReplyDeleteRobin Turrubiates
I found both of the articles on objective correlation very informative, especially because I didn’t really have an idea as to what it was. I knew what it was contextually, but I had never heard of the name for it. Both articles had different definitions for objective correlation, but despite the differences, both definitions gave a clear idea as to what objective correlation is. “What is Objective Correlation?”’s definition gave objective correlation a mathematical sort of approach, and I thought that actually made a lot of sense, and Gingerich’s article advised us to turn literary aspects in our stories into a “translating mechanism that poses some greater question that’s not directly on the page.”
ReplyDeleteObjective correlation is strongly present in Cisnero’s “Woman Hollering Creek.” It’s mainly seen through Cleofilas’ novelas, and La Gritona, both of which are constantly present and repeated throughout the reading. It’s interesting to see the parallels between the novelas and Cleofilas life, because the emotion evoked changes from the beginning when Cleofilas has hope for a romantic marriage like in the novelas, and the end, where the comparison between Cleofilas life and the novelas evokes feelings of pity and sadness because she doesn’t have the ideal novela life that she wanted.
Ayesha Crutchfield
The story “Woman Hollering Creek” by Yolanda Cisneros, I found it to be a series of short stories describing several too many details, which in my opinion did not have much in common as I began reading, however when put together or as I started realizing throughout the reading, made it very clear. Hence, I understood the Objective Correlative, and it became present. The scenery was there, but the purpose was laid out after. I did not know anything about the author at first, but a sense of Feminist movement was present. The message to me in regards to the town, the people, the habits, the chores, married life, and the machismo in between was present through the brief, but objective phases of the story. It focused on the stereotype of immigrant women living as housewives in the United States(not necessarily illegal). Ladies not knowing how to speak english, and having just a few women present on their surroundings to speak to. Male immigrants established in the United States as farm workers, and countryside agricultural labor workers in the 70’s and 80’s(and throughout history of course, but I am referring to the times of our story) whether legal or illegal. These men had ties to towns and pueblitos in Mexico, where they were born and often visited. And from time to time would take a bride with them from those towns, from people and families they knew, and settled in the U.S., in this case during the 80’s. When Felice was introduced in the end, it gave Cleofilas a different perspective about the life of a woman, and the woman herself in the United States, something she had not experienced before.
ReplyDeleteI recall those stories from people from Ciudad Mante, Tamaulipas and other places in Nuevo Leon states of Mexico. It was very nostalgic, since I remember the telenovelas. I was 5 years old, and my parents watched “Los ricos tambien lloran”.
The song played on the radio very often on “Estereo Vida” at that time here in the Valley. It was a Mexican oldies hit station that had a Juan Gabriel evening hour program, among other greats such as Daniela Romo, Jose Jose, Vicente Fernandez, and other classics. I did not realized that was the song, The song’s name is “Corazon de piedra”.
Francisco J. Aboytes
Reading "What is the Objective Correlative?" reminded of a scene from the movie Ratatouille. The main character, Remy, who is an aspiring chef, explains to his brother Emile how one food has a unique taste that differs from another food, but when those foods are combined, a whole new world full of exotic tastes opens before them, just waiting to be discovered. One particular object, image, or word alone can mean something, but combined can invoke an emotional reaction that has never been experienced before. In "Understanding the Objective Correlative" Gingerich states "Objective correlatives...allow writers to communicate universal concepts tastefully and subtlety", and that as writes we "should reveal details through dialogue, scene, and action instead of a laundry list of descriptive details" which I completely agree with and hope to achieve in my future works.
ReplyDeleteObjective Correlatives are present in Cisnero’s “Woman Hollering Creek” and I feel the small passage on page 58 beginning with "He had thrown a book." communicates them quite nicely. The story is told through the eyes of Cleofilas and in the beginning Cleofilas hopes for a romantic marriage just like the ones she has seen on t.v., but now we see how she doesn’t get to live out her ideal telenovela like she originally wanted, she doesn't even have a t.v. to watch her telenovelas anymore.
Karla Olvera
The Objective correlative is quite an interesting aspect to writing. In fact, it seems to be an essential concept to successful writing. The readings tell us it is basically a combination of objects, images, and descriptions. Although many can write not fully knowing or understanding this, it pays off to look closer at our own writing and combine certain elements to evoke a certain emotion. I think it’s also worth noting that this connects to the show, don’t tell concept. In Gingerich’s article he makes a good point, that readers are not dumb! And that they appreciate a little enlightenment. In other words, make them feel your story, don’t tell them your story. It makes me think twice about what I write, and what words I use together. What objects I use together…Because really, even the slightest change of an object can change an entire story, the entire emotional reaction of a story. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then it just means you must find a new combination of images, objects, and descriptions. As far as Woman hollering creek goes. I enjoyed it for the most part. I had read it before on a separate occasion. I was never really a big fan, but I do appreciate her poetic way of writing. There is one technique I really admire from her, that I usually incorporate in my writing. She tends to have run on sentences but utilizes them in a way that works for the good of the story. You can tell she has a poetic voice that goes into even her stories, and not just her poems. I have never been into the whole Spanish mixing, but it apparently works for many others. I have to admit, the ending for this story was fascinating. After seeing what life is like for a typical Mexican mother and wife, I can’t help but feel sympathy and notice the elements Cisneros’s combined to make me feel this way.
ReplyDeleteMykle Angelo Herrera
Both of the articles on Objective Correlation help to better define what it is and how it is used. I'm not going to lie, while reading "What is the Objective Correlative?" I didn't quite understand the meaning of it from definition alone. By providing an example of it, it helped to better illustrate just what it meant. It also goes to remind me of movies where they seem to focus on an object and while it doesn't completely make sense in a traditional way, it still impacts the viewers. It falls back into the rule "show, don't tell" for writing which I think makes a stronger impression and impact. The article "Understanding Objective Correlation" does well to echo these words as well as add the angle the it can be used for organization. It also helps to not insult the reader and let them come to natural emotional conclusion of the story.
ReplyDelete"Woman Hollering Creek" by Cisneros follows the character of Cleofila as she struggles with her married life. By mentioned the contrast between her life with her father and brother to her life with her husband, we see just how much Cleofila is suffering at the hands of her husband. While some scenes discuss that pain directly - the one where she is hit, we're not told exactly how Cleofila feels but we are given more information about her life with her family prior to this. The author mentions that Cleofila goes from being called a princess to being just a woman and her husband. It's painful to see and makes the readers feel bad for Cleofila.
- Georginia Ramos
"What is Objective Correlation?" gives an explanation to how a emotional scene in a novel, film, TV show, or any medium can work. It isn't just the words you hear, the images you see, or the music that plays. It's all these things combined. I love watching emotional and heartbreaking movies. Usually what makes the scenes most intense is how powerful music, words, and imagery plays together. While some of these elements can work on their own, I feel the strongest scenes come from a combination of them. And as stated in "Understanding the Objective Correlative," the scenes work much stronger when the emotions are not directly stated, but shown by the elements of scenery and music. The "Show, don't tell" rule works very well in emotionally driven scenes.
ReplyDeleteThis is quite apparent in Sandra Cisnero's "Woman Hollering Creek." While I tend not to be a fan of stories meant to take place years ago in an entirely different culture, I felt the "show, don't tell" elements worked here. We see the sadness that Cleofilas goes through with her unhappy marriage. It's never directly stated "This is sad stuff, cry." The descriptions we're given and the emotions stated shape the sadness. It's overall a great example of how to show the weight of a conflict and all the emotions behind it without cramming it into a reader's head.
Michael McCormick
The objective correlative in a short story is really something that i did not know was a thing. I understand the concept I just did not that there was a specific term for it and this was also something I hadn’t thought about until reading the article. I like the idea of it. When stories are too obvious about everything they are writing about, i tend to lose interest just because it does not make me think about anything other than what is on the surface level of the story. “Repetition is one of the strongest tools a writer has” I really liked that quote, it stood out to me mainly because i am currently taking a film class and in the classical film study/era films were strictly to entertain. They avoided using anything extraordinarily artistic in order to keep the observer from getting lost and causing disorientation from the film, and being redundant or repetitive was one of the characteristics of that film study. So they would use those tools to make sure that the person watching the film knows that there is a significance to whatever they were being redundant about.
ReplyDeleteJessica Guzman
The Objective Correlative was vividly described in “What is the Objective Correlative” and it really clarified my understanding of what the objective correlative is. I agree that the objective correlative is a “Phenomena” that it naturally manifests itself in writing; however I dislike that the author tries to explain objective correlative by comparing it to “emotional algebra” and disagree that it should be described in such a formulaic way. My opinion of this article is that it does a good job of being straightforward and to the point of explaining objective correlative and what it is, but it makes it seem like every writer could just follow this formula and magically create good writing, I think there is a lot more to this “objective correlative” phenomena. In my opinion linguistics and the way we naturally speak to each other in real life create their own objective correlative, the article mentions the 5 senses and incorporating them into your writing as an attempt to replicate real life feelings, they use a horrible example because the details are cheesy and way to straight forward for it to be believable. I wish the article went a little further and took seriously the way writers find inspiration to write, not just using the 5 senses, but going beyond that, like how does an author know when to use these sense tactfully. To reiterate I still find this piece very useful for beginning writer, it’s a good platform on how to start practicing but in conclusion the objective correlative to me is something you have to embrace as a writer, you have to experience it through the act of writing, and if the writer hasn’t found his voice than he cant possibly grasp the idea of objective correlative.
ReplyDeleteMark Benitez
Woman Hollering Creek ventures into the Hispanic theory of machismo and masculinity with the Latino community. Within our community, violence, especially domestic violence, is often overlooked. People tend to look the other way at domestic violence with this community, rather than address it head on. Women tend to stay in the cycle of abuse, but this story we see the protagonist break free from her abuser. Her obsession with telenovelas depicts her escape from her own life, and one of a dream. In abusive situations, victims often look for an escape to leave the problems in their lives. Telenovelas was that escape and I like how the author incorporates that aspect of hispanic culture into the piece.
ReplyDeletePedro Trevino