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- Reading responses must be AT LEAST 200 words.
- Include your full name at the end of your comments. Unnamed comments will be deleted.
- From the "Comment As" drop-down menu, choose Anonymous, then click "Publish."
- Reading responses are due by midnight on the night PRIOR to our discussion of the required reading.
Within Chapter 7, LaPlante describes the importance of point of view and what it can do to the importance of a story. For instance, one certainty that is described the sense of trust we must give to stories that are presented with a third person point of view. A third person point of view is usually that of an omniscient viewpoint, so what is being described should have the certainties that it is real and not fictional. From these certainties, we can further understand why specific things are being relayed to the reader. Because of this, there are moments where the reader must bend their sense of belief as things that occur have actually occurred, such as the example given if a man turning into a cockroach.
ReplyDelete“A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings” by Gabriel Garcia Marquez is an example of what LaPlante describes when it comes to third person perspective. From the beginning of the story, we have to believe that this old man with wings is real and actual person. This is further supported with the fact that Pelayo is not the only person who can see him, and thus the fact that other characters can see and interact with him adds concrete to his existence. Thus, in order for us to fully believe the entire story, we must agree with the view and accept this reality, which LaPlante explains. Overall, no matter what occurs, if it is in third person, it has a definite effect on the story and is considered a real effect in the plot.
David Leal
Up until now, I've never really thought to question how reliable the narrator is. Usually, I'm so caught up in the story that I don't think about this because I'm trying to visualize what I'm reading. Sure, every now and then I'll come across something that stumps me, but I don't tend to dwell on it, especially when it comes to fictional pieces. To my understanding, fiction describes imaginary events, people, places, etc. and it can be loosely based on real life occurrences and it can defy all limitations. I've never considered the limitations that LaPlante discusses within the chapter, for example: physical, intellectual, and moral/spiritual because it's never crossed my mind that there were limitations to begin with. And, how is that I'm supposed to doubt a first person narrators reliability and not a third persons? Isn't it possible a third person narrator could misinterpret something or incorrectly describe details, despite being a disembodied intelligence?
ReplyDeleteFor instance, in the story A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings, we're told in third person narrative that the neighbor woman who knew everything about life and death needed one look to show them their mistake that the man with wings was not a castaway as he claimed to be. Then in a first person narrative of the woman, she says this man with wings is an angel, but he doesn't do anything typical of an angel: understand Latin, greet His ministers, eat mothballs, perform miracles, etc. If third person is supposed to be reliable, why is the couples' understanding of the man a mistake and hers is not, even with the evidence showing that he was not the angle she dubbed him to be.
Karla Olvera
I like stories like this, the narrator simply states things as they are in a factual manner even though the story is about something so surreal. This is the first story with fantasy like fictional qualities. I like that this story tackles the unreal, whereas the stories we have read so far, are fiction, but for the most part contain material that still could happen in this reality. The challenge for a writer would be to write in such a way that something unreal feels real. I don’t find this challenge all that hard, I think because I’ve always had an out of this world imagination and that might be why I find this story interesting. In relation to chapter 7 and whether this story has a trustworthy narrator, I think Gabriel Garcia Marquez is reliable in convincing the reader of the “Very Old Man with Enormous Wings” and the viability of this creature in the story. In the descriptive detail of the angel we certainly believe that the creature is old, he uses the characters, the townspeople, the doctor and the people taking care of the angel as a lens of reality. The other characters and the amount of characters make the creature more and more believable with the description of detail and reactions to the creature being real.
ReplyDelete- Mark Benitez
So in this chapter LaPlante discusses the reliability of the narrator for stories, and talks about it in a way that I hadn’t particularly considered. When I think about the reliability narrators, my mind immediately goes to the type of first-person narrators that can be pinned as unreliable narrators by the way they describe their situations- Nick Carraway of The Great Gatsby, Holden Caulfield of The Catcher in the Rye are both characters whose points of view immediately come to mind. We can’t trust their narration because of their personal biases leaning one way or the other, and because of this the reader has to decide whether they want to trust the narrator or to connect the dots between unsaid words and unexplained situations. I was under the impression that any narrator could be unreliable because I hadn’t taken a step back. When LaPlante said that third person point of view is pretty much infallibly the truth, it seemed obvious- the third eye floating in the sky doesn’t have a bias, it doesn’t have an agenda, it just tells it like it is. Seeing this come alive in A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings was interesting immediately following the reading of the chapter. The third person perspective forces the reader’s mind to accept everything as fact because the old man isn’t the one telling the story with his own biases or trickery, but it is just being told. The chapter really gave me something new to be aware of, even if I had been passively aware of it beforehand.
ReplyDeleteLauryn Flores
In chapter 7 we are taught how to identify and understand the reliability of the writer. In other words, how truthful his intention is through the story. Also, understanding how reliable a writer’s story is, and as a writer, being able to illustrate a purpose or meaning in our story. Honesty is another important factor discussed in this chapter. In A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings, the story has a warmth feeling to it, thanks to the details and the sensitivity of the subject, a celestial being, an angel. The aromas, the details in the description of the old man, the crabs, the childs sickness, the parasites in the old man’s wings, as well as the languages brought up, such as latin or arimean, gives it its authenticity, and left at least myself thinking about it. It is not clear however what period in time it is, without looking up. I identified the woman's head with spider body as a Mexican folk amusement show in traditional Mexican carnivals. An important, top Rock Mexican band wrote a song dedicated to the “Mujer cucaracha”, which is a variation of the turned tarantula bodied woman for disobeying her parents. It seemed like middle ages, but with the spider woman is hard to guess without looking up. There are multiple messages within the story. The son gets better, same time as the old man. People are anxious to see the man, but lose interest. He stays for long time, as if he was doing a sacrifice for the family, or mankind. In the end brings prosperity to the family and takes off after, even though they prospered from his presence.
ReplyDeleteFrancisco J. Aboytes
Its easy to think narrators can be trusted. After all, narrators are characters too, at least in the first person point of view. LaPlante makes an interesting point, that when in first person view, we should be weary of the information given to us. The information might be true to some extent, but will still inevitably be one-sided. Whether this is intentional or not doesn’t matter, what matters is how the author decides to go about this to further their story’s interest. There isn’t really a right or wrong answer as far as I know. It is more about knowing what you want to do, and realizing what point of view will get you there. This brings creativity to a whole deeper level, one than many may not be aware of.
ReplyDeleteThe old Man with enormous wings was so bizarre! But I loved it! This story is shrouded with so much mystery I loved it so much. There are so many things to consider, what does the old man symbolize? Or the couple? Or the spider-woman? The mixture of fantasy with real life is neat, and the old man is a subtle way to do it. But I can’t wrap my head around it, what is the author trying to say? Is it biblical? Perhaps an allegory of Christ, or for children, and how when they grow up, parents feel remorse? Who knows, nevertheless, it makes for an interesting read.
Mykle Angelo
I had a very difficult time understanding what was going in "A Very Old Man With Enormous Wings." So I ended up taking a look at SparkNotes for extra assistance. From what I'm looking at, the story has a very interesting concept. I think it was interesting how the old man isn't directly stated to be an angel at first and the narrative is what allows the reader to come to the conclusion that he may in fact have come from above. Normally I'm not a huge fan of stories with little to no dialogue, but I think a simple narrative can be enough if you're focus is on the untold rather than the explained. In some cases, interpretation is a story's strong point.
ReplyDeleteMichael McCormick
Chapter 7 began discussing the topic of unreliable narrators in both first and third person perspectives. Before reading the chapter, I actually never payed attention as to whether or not the omniscient narrative was unreliable. I always considered third person point of view as being genuine rather than dishonest. Since typically an omniscient narrator would be observing everything that goes on ,and then describe it in detail. But I have to admit that reading some of the examples, especially “The metamorphosis”, surprised me. Such as the short story “A very old man with enormous wings”.
ReplyDelete“A very old man with enormous wings” is a bizarre tale that brings absurdity to life. It’s about a man and his wife who come across an old guy in their back yard who resembles a very decrepit angel. It is often mentioned that the man, though having wings, is nothing like the biblical interpretations of “true” angels. If anything he seems to be some sort of weird freak show like attraction. Like the bearded lady or the Fiji mermaid. The man is often described as being covered in parasites. Which could be an indication of uncleanliness,(the opposite of godliness). He also has molting filthy vulture wings, instead of wings made of gold ,or however these people imagined an angel to look like. This short story is trying to make the reader believe in the impossible. By describing things that never happens in the real world, yet somehow does in this one. Such as flying devils, old angels, and spider women. All through the use of third person point of view ,and an unreliable, yet honest narrator.
-Kathleen Salinas
My head hurts after reading the chapter and the story. The whole idea of unreliability makes the chapter unreliable itself. Or it’s just my head so confused with the story. Anyway, the chapter provided some hints of how first person and third person shows the unreliability of a narrator in a story. This is can either be a good technique or a mistake that needs to be fixed. Overall, it’s the consistency that counts in a story. If you have the skill to make a reader’s brain pop after reading a confusing story, but still gives us some proper hints of truth, good on you.
ReplyDeleteAs for the story, “A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings,” …What the hell did I just read?! I just don’t get it! All I understand is that this story is within some kind of different alternative Earth in Europe (because Rome was mentioned) and people are freaking out over an old angel on the shore of a beach. I hate how the people treated the old man, but then again, I don’t like how the story is being told! Ugh! And that spider! Why! I don’t want to read anything to do with spiders! I have a feeling that we are going to have a very interesting conversation about this story in class...and some acetaminophen.
Hector Dimas
Chapter seven, “How Reliable Is This Narrator?” by LaPlante discussed the difference between third person and first person and how reliable each point of view can be. She states that first person can become something of an issue when it comes to reliability. A first person can pretend or sound sane and then we come to realize that in reality they are insane. The reliability of the character is questioned. Now when it comes to third person it usually is a reliable point of view because we view everything through the eyes of an all-knowing intelligence. The short story, “A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings” by Gabriel Garcia Marquez is about a couple who stumbles upon a fallen angel. The arrival of the angel causes a commotion in the village and eventually it becomes a global sensation. People from different places come to see the angle and because of this the couple grow rich. Eventually everyone questions whether the angel is real and just as quick as the angel gained fame he loses it. In the end his wings grow and he flies off. Throughout it all the couple viewed the angel as a nuisance and yet his arrival made them rich and gave them a better life. Maybe the reason why the angel had appeared was to aid them.
ReplyDeleteAlejandra Rodriguez
In chapter seven,"How Reliable Is This Narrator?", I didn't know there was a difference between first and third P.O.V as far as trust. La Plante tells us that by choosing to write in first person, readers are bound to "run into the issue of reliability" (234). She then breaks this down with seven limitations that come with writing in first person narrative. Kind of like a check list of what to be aware about. First person narrative isn't really something we as readers can rely on. They are simply a character in the story, telling us the story through their eyes. They're are not outside the bubble kind of like what a third person narrative serves as; seeing the big picture. Third person narrative is also meant to tell the truth. "...this is not an outsider who is not involved in the story...but a disembodied intelligence telling us about the events of the story" (238).
ReplyDeleteIn "A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings", Marquez tells us in third person. However brought in some interesting themes. Such as life and death, religion, and overall humanity. Marquez has these 'one liners' throughout the story how people gathered at Pelayo and Elisenda's house to see the old man with wings for themselves, if the old man was part of freak show than a real angel. Elisenda also charged the locals, treating it if were an exclusive circus freak show for all to see.
-Illiana Luna
This chapter was really interesting to read, because I’ve never really put much thought as to whether the narrator was reliable or not. Like in the case of the last example Kennedy’s “Ironweed”, if I were to read that book, I would just accept the fact that Francis could see ghosts. Unless, of course, I somehow saw something that were to lead me to believe otherwise. I’m kind of interested in trying out an unreliable narrator now, but I’m a little hesitant to because there is the possibility that I would make it extremely obvious. I really enjoyed this chapter overall.
ReplyDeleteI honestly have no idea what to think of “A Very Old Man with Enormous Wings” because...I didn’t really understand it? I know we were supposed to come to the conclusion that the narrator was unreliable, but with how the story ended, I don’t think the narrator was. To me, the old man was some sort of mutant, or he was possibly like the spider-girl. It’s very possible that his wings were a punishment. I thought it was funny that Elisenda and Pelayo used the winged man to their advantage, though. This story was interesting to read, even if I didn’t understand the point of it.
Ayesha Crutchfield
I liked chapter 7. This topic is one that, in my experience, has not really been discussed in great detail. In my creative writing courses that I have taken, Narration is really just sort of described. In so far as the types of points of view are introduced and described with a brief disclaimer that sometimes the narrator can be unreliable but it has always been a really superficial description of this concept. So as you might imagine this chapter was that addition of necessary depth to the idea of Narration. I especially liked how LaPlante included the types of limitations that might affect the 1st person narrative voice and the kinds of biases that arise from such. I found this information to be very useful and I am certain that I will refer back to it in the future. The assigned short story was intriguing to say the least. Definitely one of the more inventive narratives I have encountered and downright peculiar. I think it was a good example of how a narrator can be unreliable but I think that there could have been a much simpler illustration of this point. That is not to say I did not enjoy the story. I just felt that Garcia Marquez’s story was not outright unreliable in the same way that LaPlante showed us in the examples from the chapter.
ReplyDeleteAndres Trevino
Chapter 7 had many good points that I hadn’t considered with the voice of the narrator. The ways in which we chose to use greatly impact our story and this chapter helped me shape my outlook on the story I’m working on. I felt stuck in many ways trying to find the ideal vantage point to get my conflict across. The section on “third person point of view and reliability”, helped me find the voice in which I think would be ideal for me and the examples (1-4) on pages 238-239 were a big help.
ReplyDelete“A Very old man with enormous wings” was a great story. there was so much about this style of fiction and the elements Marquez weaves into this level of fiction that made it so enjoyable. It showed and highlighted some of the ugliest characteristics in humans/society like greed, oppression, and selfishness. There were very real factors in this theme that Marquez successfully displays in the characters of Pelayo, Elisenda, the neighbor woman, and the priest. They all had their own self interests and used the old man to obtain them. Even treating him as a subhuman being, they were very much “okay” with thinking of him as a pest and not something, much less someone, worthy of respect or care. They other fictional characters like the girl who turned into a spider was a nice touch that made this story reflect our reality and social times as of now. Perhaps not much has changed since marquez’s time, if that’s the ways in which society may have impacted his writing.
Amanda Gonzales
It was interesting to see how Marquez’s story would unfold. I liked how the angel’s identity is determined with such finality. No questions. The whole town goes along with it as if it's something totally believable within the world they inhabit. “On the following day everyone knew that a flesh-and-blood angel was held captive in Pelayo’s house.”(252) I'm not entirely sure what the old man was meant to symbolize but I figure there must be a larger subtext beneath what information is given. I think magical realism is such a fascinating way to write as it gives the author freedom to express opinions and send messages to the reader without the story coming off as instructional or like a “book of virtue” way of telling, if anyone recalls that cartoon.
ReplyDeleteImages of angels or spiders are something we can all imagine, all evoking a similar image and idea of what they symbolize to us.
As far as reliability goes, I'm not completely sure whether or not the old man was indeed an angel as the end was quite ambiguous; “she kept on watching until it was no longer possible for her to see him, because then he was no longer an annoyance in her life but an imaginary dot on the horizon of the sea.” (256)
Robin Turrubiates
Chapter seven revolves around the meaning of the narrator. It dives into deeper conventions of first and third person and how reliable they could be for the reader. Different limitations such as geographic, temporal, physical, intellectual, experiential, moral, and emotional. Knowing these limitations cause author to create the awareness that your narrator is not all knowing, but human, making it believable. For third person reliability, the narrator has the ability to morph the story on a new level. In third person, the audience either enters a world that seems impossible, a character’s inner thoughts, realm of metafiction, or the convention was a complete mistake. In essence, as writers, we must compose something in such a fashion that our audience would find it believable. If it is not believable, then it is not reliable.
ReplyDeleteAs said in the title, the story revolves around a man with wings, but a major theory explored is exploitation. Whenever there is an anomaly in the world, there is a person behind it that wants to profit off of it. While the story is long, the themes below the surface provide a great foundation.
Pedro Trevino
Chapter Seven introduces the concept of reliability with the narrative. In this case, the concept concentrates on using and defining how the narrator dictates the style and the limitations shown by the writer. Each point of view grants a certain perspective that changes given the application of these limitations from the information given. First person seems better with unreliable narrators as it adds a level of depth that makes readers take a second to understand whether the writer intended for the narrator to be unreliable or truthful. An emphasis on the truth becomes important when the narrator seems to believe in his own words; the way dialogue and narration is written can define the success of how believable the narrator could be despite seeming unreliable at times.
ReplyDeleteAs for “A Very Old Man with Broken Wings,” the third person perspective seems to highlight the idea of reliability with the narrator in relation to the magical realism happening throughout the short story. Though, the story feels more of a dream than actual reality based on the winged old man and how everyone reacts to his appearance. In that case, the narrative might come from the narrator’s perspective of reality as he presents the possibility of a world where these types of characters exist. One can say that the narrator is making up this description to highlight how the old man might seem, but I guess it’s up to interpretation.
- Joseph Gonzalez